paizo.com - Forums / Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: What is your favorite class for unarmed melee characters? (2024)

So, I'm wondering mostly over unarmed strikes. But what is your favorite class or archetype for playing a unarmed melee based character?

I really like martial artist types but have as of yet only played the Brawler, But other then that and monk there are many archetypes that gives unarmed damage similar to a monk. So what ne is your favorite?

Second question, This is for natural attacks! Who is your favorite class to bring for a natural attacker? Only character I played who used natural attacks was one of my alchemists who used Feral Mutagen.

Hmm, good question(s)...

I, personally, am not big into the unarmed combat styles, so I may not be in the best position to answer the first part... if I had to pick, probably a Human UnChained Monk, with Weapon Finesse, Panther Parry, Circling Mongoose, and Dimensional Savant... we will call him Barry Allen.

For natural attacks, I prefer a Changeling Eyebiter Mesmerist 7/Evangelist PrC 10 with Fiendish Obedience Lamashtu... Lizardfolk or Tengu could probably do it better, but Changeling offers just the right flavor.

For unarmed I quite enjoy Brawler... though I have be intrigued by the idea of either unarmed magus or bloodrager (specifically blood conduit Bloodrager)

For natural attacker I can’t find any better option than a shifter...

Mesmerists don't really offer any support for natural attacks. I just ended up really liking the Eyebiter I put together. Changelings can have claws, and there are lots of ways to gain extra natural attacks. Simply be Lizardfolk or Tengu can get you Bite and Claws to start with.

Lamashu's 2nd Divine Boon, Teratoma;
You gain a beneficial deformity. Generally, this deformity grants you a secondary natural bite, claw, tail, or tentacle attack dealing 1d6 points of damage (1d4 if you are Small). You gain an additional ability with this extra attack, chosen from the following special features: bleed 3, grab, trip, or a 5-foot increase to reach with the natural attack.

And, the Evangelist’s Spiritual Form grants hertelepathyto a range of 100 feet, as well as two variable abilities.

Upon reaching 10th level, the evangelist must choose the form of these two abilities, and once she has selected them they can’t be changed. First, she chooses one ability score to which she gains a +4 bonus when in spiritual form. Second, she chooses one physical transformation from the following to gain when she transforms: wings (fly speed of 40 feet with good maneuverability), gills (ability to breathe water and a swim speed of 30 feet), or a singlenatural attack(a claw, bite, gore, slam, or tail sting that deals damage as appropriate for the evangelist’s size) as well as a temporary appendage capable of making such an attack if necessary.

She also has an Animal Mask combined with the Demon Mother's Mask, which can give her another natural attack... amoung other things:

Demon Mother's Animal Mask

SourceInner Sea Gods pg. 263,Gods and Magic pg. 56, Villain Codex pg. 201

Aurafaint transmutation;CL5th
Slothead;Price7,650 gp;Weight1 lb.

Description

This finely constructed hyena mask is usually made of leather and colored cloth with carved bone, or is carved from an animal’s skull. The mask completely covers the wearer’s face, but the wearer can see through the mask’s eyes as though they were her own. The wearer gains a +2 competence bonus on Handle Animal and Heal checks. The wearer can smell when nearby creatures are in heat or otherwise especially fertile (creatures such as humans that can breed at any time of the year always smell fertile unless they are barren).

As a swift action, the wearer can transform her head into the form of the animal depicted by the mask for up to 5 minutes per day, absorbing the mask into her body in the process but leaving in place any other item she wears on her head. While so transformed, the wearer retains the ability to speak normally and can complete verbal spell components, utter command words, and activate spell-completion and spell-trigger items. She also gains low-light vision, scent, and either a bite or gore attack (as appropriate to the animal) that deals 1d4 points of damage for a Medium wearer (1d3 if Small).

This duration does not need to be consecutive, but it must be used in 1-minute increments.

If Lamashtu is the wearer’s patron, the mask counts as an unholy symbol and a hole for a third eye appears in its forehead. The wearer can usesummon monster IIonce per day to summon a fiendish hyena, which obeys the wearer as if they shared a common language. The wearer may interbreed with animals within one size category of the wearer’s size. The offspring of such unions are members of the mother’s race with the fiendish simple template and bear monstrous aesthetic features of the father’s race.

Construction

RequirementsCraft Wondrous Item,beast shape I, detect animals or plants,polymorph,summon monster II, creator must have 5 ranks in Handle Animal and Heal;Cost3,825 gp

Merellin wrote:

So, I'm wondering mostly over unarmed strikes. But what is your favorite class or archetype for playing a unarmed melee based character?

I really like martial artist types but have as of yet only played the Brawler, But other then that and monk there are many archetypes that gives unarmed damage similar to a monk. So what ne is your favorite?

Second question, This is for natural attacks! Who is your favorite class to bring for a natural attacker? Only character I played who used natural attacks was one of my alchemists who used Feral Mutagen.

I've had 2ish unarmed characters, and maybe 3-4 natural attackers in PFS.

Unarmed #1 was a Eldritch Guardian Fighter with a single level dip in Monk. Mostly revolved around Intrepid Rescuer and being prone all the time with his squirrel familiar... while pretending to be a merfolk. Merf the Merfolk.

Unarmed #2 was more of an intimidate build(uRogue) with some Brawler for punching. Was going for a less guns version of Punisher.

I did have a near full uMonk (single level dip in Reanimated Medium), though it was more of a fun piece revolving around Rope Dart, Grappling with Hamatula Strike from a distance to pull them adjacent. Scorpion.

Question 2: Let see...

Natural Attacker #1 was an Alchemist(Grenadier) with a Mammoth Helm. Think I dipped Sleepless Detective, and Hunter(both mostly to get detect magic) before eventually retraining to pure Alchemist at 12. Eventually in full plate without proficiency at no penalty. Pretty sure besides Power Attack, all of his feats were 'additional discovery'. Zieg'el.

Natural Attacker #2 was a Occultist though he was somewhat of an unarmed striker for a while. Kitsune, and Fox Shape pretty much permantently. Dipped Mouser Swashbuckler and Sacred Fist Warpriestfor low levels, but retrained to pure Occultist at 12 and moved from front line annoyance/tank to support. First experience with Ring of Inner Fortitude, and man it's satisfying to respond to the GM "Not all of that damage seems to go through" when he says to take 3 Strength damage and he knows you have a Strength score of 5. Eventually Eldritch Heritage(Ghoul) for a couple claws on demand... that could paralyze for 1d4+1 round. Grevane.

Natural Attacker #3 was a Kraken Caller Druid 'Pirate', basically expend(not use) Wild Shape to gain a bucket of tentacles. Unfortunately, didn't get to play it too much. Tentacleez.

Natural Attacker #4 was a Skald (Urban, Totemic Tiger, Red Tongue) with a level dip in Bloodrager for the valet familiar and better rage. Basically, idea was to be a tiger all day and be super hard to kill. At 11, I was expecting that anytime I would go below 0, 20 lethal would be converted to non-lethal. Then I could also operate normally below 0 (ferocious action, 20 Con) and non-lethal wouldn't knock me out (flagellant). I would also heal 8 lethal and non-lethal each round(Skald's Vigor) and could cast spells while raging. Eventually, Celestial template from Planar Wild Shape for DR. Tigger.

Favorite class for unarmed melee? Wizard.

Favorite class for nearly any build? Wizard.

Seriously; I bet you could build a pretty terrific Touch attack specialist off a wizard, especially when you get high enough level to quicken True Strike and really crank up the damage on said touch attacks.

Merellin wrote:

I really like martial artist types but have as of yet only played the Brawler, But other then that and monk there are many archetypes that gives unarmed damage similar to a monk. So what ne is your favorite?

I'd absolutely pick brawler. No appendage of unnecessary class features for an unarmed warrior (hi there, monk), no fuss with spells, and they get the job done. Pretty much all class features contribute to the concept, even though I'd have to deal with Paizo's overused pool of daily points (here for martial flexibility). Well, snakebite striker archetype kills the pool, so this flaw means little.

Before brawler, I would have gone for the martial artist archetype of monk. It trades away most (?) of the mystical stuff in favor of more straight-forward unarmed combat. And I like hungry ghost monk, though it's main benefits (gain HP on hitting) kick in rather late.

Quote:

Second question, This is for natural attacks! Who is your favorite class to bring for a natural attacker? Only character I played who used natural attacks was one of my alchemists who used Feral Mutagen.

That's tough. Candidates are:

Goblin wild gnasher barbarian (bite the dragon and don't let go)

Metamorph alchemist (basically the cool parts of the class plus shapeshifting)

Oozemorph (just because of the countless complaints)

Shifter (arguably better at "natural weapons" than at "shifting")

Some weird arcane + martial combination (hair and nails from witch, gore from transmutation (shapechange) specialized school, bite from race or item, BAB and feats from martial class(es))

Brawler

Using martial flexibility to grab the feats dedicated adversary, rat catcher, and ghost slayer as needed.

I personally like to splash 5 levels of unchained rogue, to grab the heal skill unlock and take the healers hands feat and incredible healer.

Makes a useful skill monkey/healer that can still last some smack down.

My favorite class for UAS is no single class. Cherry picking the best parts of a few levels gives so much versatility.

In addition to the classes mentioned consider

Okayo Corsair Swashbuckler
Bloody Knuckled Rowdy Bloodrager
Brawler Fighter (the archetype is called Brawler, very confusing)

Wonderstell wrote:

Brawler (Battle Dancer)

Currently playing one of these in a campaign with my group... we just hit level 2 last session... so soon I shall get to experiance the actual fun that is the Battle Dancer... level 1 was a nightmare... I felt like I was little more than a Commoner...

It's a great archetype. I had a lot of fun with Friendly Switch while enlarged, which allows you to shuffle around friends while flurrying.

I definitely recommend getting reach one way or the other, as you can walk out of an adjacent enemy's threatened area while flurrying and use your 5 ft step to end movement in a position where they can't full-attack.

Merellin wrote:

So, I'm wondering mostly over unarmed strikes. But what is your favorite class or archetype for playing a unarmed melee based character?

There are quite a few options.

Brawler and monk both work well, with archetypes allowing you to tailor for specific abilities. Fighter (even without the unarmed fighter archetype; brawler and [interestingly] cad can also work reasonably well) is also a good choice, leveraging the bonus feats to select Improved Unarmed Strike, the Two-Weapon Fighting feat chain, and style feats. Elemental ascetic kineticist can do a better job of emulating a "bender" martial artist than other options. Magus can also work; the esoteric archetype is somewhat sub-par, but kapenia dancer or staff magus can do OK by taking Improved Unarmed Strike. An eldritch scrapper sorcerer can focus on unarmed strikes and retains full spellcasting (with multiclassing, possibly unarmed fighter 1/eldritch scrapper sorcerer 6/eldritch knight 10/sorcerer +3, BAB is even decent at +15 while retaining 9th-level spells). A vigilante can work in combat almost as well (if not better) than a fighter, but gains all of the social talents for added abilities outside of combat. Sacred fist warpriests can mix unarmed combat with divine magic.

Merellin wrote:

Second question, This is for natural attacks! Who is your favorite class to bring for a natural attacker? Only character I played who used natural attacks was one of my alchemists who used Feral Mutagen.

Beastmorph vivisectionist alchemist works very well; metamorph works less well, but can last longer. Barbarian with Animal Totem rage powers can do OK. Druids, of course, after gaining wild shape or Totem Transformation (if taking one of the animal shaman archetypes). Rangers or slayers using the Natural Weapon combat style to pick up Aspect of the Beast/Claws of the Beast; especially if using a race that can gain a bite attack (such as a Toothy half-orc or Maw or Claw tiefling). Natural attacks are pretty central to shifters. Synthesist summoners (if allowed) can be quite effective. Some people swear by the white-haired witch archetype.

It takes a while to get there, but if you want to have a bunch of natural attacks:

Aasimar summoner (APG or Unchained) 18/ranger 2 to pick up Angelic Blood/Angelic Flesh/Angel Wings/Metallic Wings (two secondary wing attacks), Aspect (Limbs/Arms for a second set of fully functional arms), Greater Aspect (6 Tentacles), and Natural Weapon combat style for Aspect of the Beast (Claws of the Beast; one pair of claws); you probably want to pick up Multiattack, as well. Add a helm of the mammoth lord for a gore attack, talons of Leng for a second pair of claws on the second set of arms/hands, and a wyvern cloak for a tail sting attack.

4 claws (primary), 2 wings (secondary), 6 tentacles (secondary), 1 gore (primary), 1 tail sting (primary). There may be a way to squeeze in another natural attack or two, but 14 (6 primary, 8 secondary) available at all times (without any rule-twisting or more than a 2 level dip in one other class) should be sufficient. As long as the character has a 13+Dex, they also qualify for the Multiweapon Fighting feat.

Surprised that nobody mentioned Druid or Synthesist Summoner for natural attacking before Dragonchess Player. Druids can get pretty good at this (while still being full 9/9 casters), although it does take a fair number of levels to get going and is initially hampered by limited uses. Synthesist Summoners, of course, don't have most of this problem (no limit on uses per day, and how good they get at it is only limited by the initially small pool of Evolution Points).

Metamorph Alchemist sure trades out an awful lot for what they get -- lose the entirety of Alchemy (including the Alchemist's iconic variant of 6/9 casting and Bombs) to get a rough equivalent of what a standard Druid (9/9 caster) gets without trading anything out? Pass gas on that.

Esoteric Magus is indeed sub-par as a Magus archetype -- it trades out too much for what it gets. But at least it is not as bad as Metamorph Alchemist.

Note that a standard Magus could become a pretty good natural attacker by way of the Monstrous Physique spells, although again this is something that takes a while to get going. Even Beast Shape can give good service for this (and you could take pretty much the same build and use it with Monstrous Physique, although for best results you would need to adjust choices that were for specific natural weapons). Note that Monstrous Physique is better with regard to being able to continue to cast spells, even though you can't get quite as many attacks as a Giant Octopus, since a Magus (or for that matter any other non-Druid/Shifter) can't get the Natural Spell feat, which Druids can (and usually should) get (but need 4th level, so too much for a dip).

I wouldn't recommend Eldritch Scrapper Sorcerer into Eldritch Knight (or by itself), since your Martial Flexibility is never going to get upgraded beyond the point after which you switch to Eldritch Knight (and if you don't switch, you still trade out the 9th level Bloodline Power that would be good for melee if you went Abyssal or Orc Bloodlines (Strength boost) or Pit-Touched (Wildblooded) Bloodline (Constitution boost), while remaining 1/2 BAB.

If you want to go Sorcerer for natural attacks, Dragon Disciple would be the way to go -- gives you several ability score and natural armor boosts, a Bite attack, some Bloodline Feats and is d12 (although unfortunately still only 3/4 BAB). You could even use Eldritch Scrapper with this, since the Blood of Dragons ability of Dragon Disciple will progress your Martial Flexibility that replaces most of the Bloodline Powers. Tnanks to the Favored Prestige Class(*) (probably best used on Perception) and Prestigious Spellcaster (3 ranks required) feats, you can even avoid any loss of spellcasting progression if you can afford 4 feats. Note that if you could afford 2 more feats, you could even get Skill Focus (Stealth) (feat tax, but not bad to have) and then Eldritch Heritage (Ghoul) instead of using the Eldritch Scrapper 3rd level option to trade out your 3rd level Bloodline Power to get back your Draconic Bloodline Claws -- the 1st level Ghoul Bloodline Claws are actually good rather than just being humdrum claws with a bit of increased damage, whereas the 3rd level Draconic Bloodline Power is actually pretty good (gives you Energy Resistance and Natural Armor that gets better at higher levels).

(*)It's tempting to label Favored Prestige Class as a feat tax, and it sort of is, but it gives you 2/3 of a Skill Focus, and on a 10 level prestige class, it also gives you effectively half of the Cunning or Toughness feats, except that it stacks with those actual feats.

As noted above, the Ghoul Bloodline Claws are good for a natural attacker. No reason you coudln't get good use out of Skill Focus (Stealth) (feat tax, but not bad to have) and then Eldritch Heritage (Ghoul) on a martial with moderately high Charisma. Some examples:

•Ninja -- Skill Focus (Stealth) is actually really good here, and you can paralyze somebody you shank, and once you build up some Sneak Attack dice, the small size of the claw damage doesn't matter;
•Swashbuckler -- Skill Focus (Stealth) still isn't bad, and at full BAB, you have a better chance to hit, and the claws technically even qualify for use with your Swashbuckler abilities (including gaining Panache) as long as you didn't take an archetype that modifies that;
Paladin, or more thematically matching, Antipaladin -- use a polearm most of the time, but when somebody tumbles (or uses some anti-reach feat or other ability) within your minimum range, you have a very nasty surprise for them;
•Bloodrager (which doesn't have a Ghoul Bloodline) -- same as for Paladin/Antipaladin, excxept that you could get the Aberrant or Abyssal Bloodrager Bloodlines to get some Reach without having to expend a spell (4th Level Bloodline Power approximates Long Arm or Enlarge Person, respectively -- instead cast the other spell to get even more reach, or even cast both spells to get ludicrous reach), and then use the Ghoul Claws in a regular attack or Attack of Opportunity to paralyze enemies; if you want some other Bloodrager Bloodline, you can still use one or both spells to get the Reach; in any case, this makes you more of a dedicated natural attacker than the above options;
•Bloodrager with the Hag-Riven archetype if you really want to go whole hog on natural attacking, although this locks you out of the Aberrant and Abyssal Bloodlines, so you will always have to use the spells to get Reach; on the other hand, you have claws all the time, and can burn spells to get enhancements different from Ghoul Claws, making the Ghoul Claws optional; be careful of getting flanked, since this archetype trades out Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge.

Merellin wrote:

what is your favorite class or archetype for playing a unarmed melee based character?

Easy, unMonk. It doesn't have the versatility of a caster, but it can still do a lot of things martials usually don't, while being much better at martial combat than most unarmed gish builds. Invested Regent or Windstep Master grant Air Walk capabilities, the Empty Body ki power grants access to flight, invisibility, and walk-through-walls at fourth level, and there're Ki powers for all sorts of things (e.g. condition suppression (including on others), component-free Restoration, swift-action Freedom of Movement, saving party members from failed saves, and needing to breath only twice per day).

Merellin wrote:

Who is your favorite class to bring for a natural attacker?

Can I name (non-Synthesist) Summoner? I also very much like using four levels or Weretouched Shifter and then multiclassing into something different, like Jinyiwei Investigator - five primary attacks and pounce make for plenty martial prowess, and the casting and other goodies of the second class bring versatility and patch holes.

As the nature of natural attacks is that you can get plenty but each individual attack is pretty weak, everything without a move-and-full-attack option is strictly subpar.

UnArcaneElection wrote:

Metamorph Alchemist sure trades out an awful lot for what they get -- lose the entirety of Alchemy (including the Alchemist's iconic variant of 6/9 casting and Bombs) to get a rough equivalent of what a standard Druid (9/9 caster) gets without trading anything out? Pass gas on that.

Don't undersell it - ever since Bestiary 6 gave us the Deathsnatcher, the Monstrous Physique line is so much better than the Beast Shape line it's crazy. Sure, Metamorph has issues, like dead levels and having to wait until 9th level to get pounce (both because the progression of what spells is used is nonsensical - it shouldn't surprise anyone that the archetype is from the same guy who wrote the Oozemorph).

Ultimately, Metamorph is a martial, if you compare it to casters, it won't stand a chance in any comparison that includes versatility. Same as any martial. But if you compare it to other martials, Metamorph fares very well: unlimited Flight, six primary natural attacks, strength bonus, and pounce at a level still earlier than most, all while keeping a humanoid form (and thus retains the use of armor and activatable or drawn items).

@Derklord Wow, Thats an impressive post, Thank you!

@Everyone Thanks for all the replies! Pathfinder has soooooo much content is is really hard to find all of it.

I have two characters that use natural attacks. The first is a Warpriest archetype called Feral Champion. It gets claw attacks that grow in damage as the Sacred Weapon. I used kitune to get a bite attack and put in a level of Adaptive Shifter to get a tail slap. I'm considering buying him a Helm of the Mammoth Lord to get Gore but I'm unsure.

My other character was made just to see how many different natural weapons I could get. I used a combination of class features, feats, and items to get them. The classes are Were-Touched Shifter, White-Haired Witch, and Barbarian.

Besides Lamashu's 2nd Evangelist Boon, Teratoma... you can also get a bite from Kabriri's 2nd Sentinel Boon, Ghoulish Hungers. Kabriri's bite attack also brings Filth Fever with it.

Oddly enough, the Vampire template doesn't grant a bite attack... even though that is kind of what Vampires are known for.

See, I was trying to build a Vampire using a race with a Swim speed, because reasons... well, Grippli FCB for Ranger gets a Swim speed, and Ranger Combat Style feats can get claws. Kabriri's Obedience brings a bite. Dandy Ranger keys off Charisma making the whole Undead thing easier... not that it really has anything to do with the natural attack part of the build.

Absolutely nothing is stopping anyone from combining Lamashu's 2nd Evangelist Boon and Evangelist's Spiritual Form with any of the other builds people have brought up... both Teratoma and Spiritual Form offer some less standard choices for natural attacks, as well as the limb required to do the attack. If you cherry-pick your choices and items, you should be able to have a plethora of different attacks.

Lizardfolk / Iruxi Inquisator.
18 Str & three primary attacks:
Bite - 1d3+4
2x Claw - 1d4+4

Add Banes/Judgements as desired.

Venkatesh wrote:

Lizardfolk / Iruxi Inquisator.

18 Str & three primary attacks:
Bite - 1d3+4
2x Claw - 1d4+4

Add Banes/Judgements as desired.

Tengu works, too.

VMC Barbarian doesn't hurt anything, either...

I've been prepping an unchained Monk for the last weeks, which I'll get to play in about a year, when I finish my Hell Rebel's campaign and someone else in my Tuesday group takes over GM'ing duties for the first time in about 15 years for one campaign. Really looking forward to it!

Anyway, it's a DEX build with the Jabbing Style chain as the foundation. Race is a garuda-born Aasimar, 20 point buy. So far it looks really solid, although the damage output is a bit lacking for the first levels, until I get Jabbing Style at lvl 3 and then probably Elemental Fist at lvl 6 or 8. Since the campaign is Strange Aeons, it's not impossible that I'll have to get Diamond Mind first. I'd expect a lot of fear effects in a horror campaign. Of course the damage output really ramps up at lvl 9, when Jabbing Master kicks in.